1993-06-24 County Commissions Mtg VerbatimVERBATIM OF COUNTY 0
612419
CHAIRMAN HARVEY.• We're running a little bit
comprehensive plan challenge, and I'll turn it over to ou
ATTORNEY CASSELS: Thank you Mr. Chan
or entering into a settlement stipulation dealing with
receive public comment on the proposed stipulation.
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1
ON MEETING
here and this meeting is on the settlement of the
tornev. Mr. Cassels.
Florida Statues requires that prior to considering
rehensive Plan that a public hearing be held to
The, as I indicated to you at the hearing that we had, I g 4ess a week ago, on the 17th, that Mr. Cook and I
spent most of that day working on settlement language andtossing out this,and adding thatpand came to what,
at least I feellwas some give and take on both sides and msulted in a document. But�I think it addresses the
concerns of the City., at the same time recognizing that the County has legitimate interest that need to be
protected also.
The document that I handed out to you last Thursdaj
Comprehensive Plan and the Data and Analysis. We di
meeting, so 1 did want to bring it back to you at this poi
proposed settlement. I've given you a chart that has M
Settlement proposal on the right hand column�and the Cc
way that it was left with Mr. Cookboth at the meeting on h
you)was that the City has not yet completed a final review
or semicolons that are out of place. But I do want to get
changes, so let me read through these I know we've got a i
The first request to change, Objective S-3 of the County
facilities. As we discussed on many occasions the City fe
Area which is a service area which extenitbeyond their ju
claiming a Chapter 180 Area) is to pass an ordinance, a (
Ordinance, 18-20, which claims approximately 40 sq. mih
that the County and City had previously done. County s
claimed service are because of some of the language in i
vas a stipulation aid proposed changes to the
not have the time t ito it in any depth at that
and go over some of the points that are in this
current adopted plan on the left hand column.
ity Staff notes in boxes in the third column. The
17th before youand my recent conversations with
'the document to see whether there's any comma;S
c a little more involved into the actual substantial
ivy agenda�so I'll make this a quickly as possible.
?mpre ive Plan dealing with water and sewer
that it properly claimed a Chapter 180 Service
(cal limits. And they, one of the requirements for
ordinance to do so. They did in fact pass a City
end really was taken off of a 201 Facilities Study
f is not really sure of the total legal effect of that
Code.
However, we certainly recognized that they do claim it andthat it is important to them. And one of their
complaints that they had with the ,Comprehensive Plan am i iccordinglyfiled the challenge was that we did not
recognize they were claiming this 180 Service Area. And agi in although we're not completely sure of the legal
effectors, extending that service area and certainly do not ri i ly wish to champion i4 defend it or otherwise join
in the service area we certainly recognize that it is a clairo hat they are making.
We also recognize that the Beach Water Association ma some degree of a claim and again don't want to
endorse, champion or defend that claim either. But it's
a open planning element to include the recognition
that both of these parties are claiming service areas withi ur County.
The second, the first fist shaded area under objective S-3 is
portion is simply recognizing that reduction of wasteful
don't have any objection to changes the language to in
Policy S-3.1, second line, the change is really more gra
City as well as SFWMD again, coordination is a proper
were ever possible with the City. So we have no objec
The third provision, you can stop me anytime you want me
Policy S-3.2 again the first portion is more a grammaticc
shall continue working with the City or working together i
underlined portion of including and evaluating an appraiso
Probably technically facts that come up or circumstance
Comprehensive Plan are more for the subject of an am
challenge to the plan itself. However, you did agree to an G
to recognizing that fact in the settlement stipulation.
xognition that they are serving that. The second
cation is a valid planning goal and we certainly
that.
:al that we will continue to coordinate with the
n of government and we should be coordinating
that change.
to go into anymore depth on any of these issues.
hange. I'm not sure of the distinction between
ever, we have no objection to the change. The
'City sanitary, sewer and potable water systems
at exist after the effective date of adopting the
iment to the plan in the future rather than a
aisal just recently so we don't have an objection
Second page, the first portion of S-3.3, essentially re
moments ago. It also recognizes that there is a Statute
The bottom portion where it begins with therefore by Ap)
service areas, Beach Water and the City. And there h
everyone's best interest to seek to resolve these issues, we
attempt to formalized an interlocal agreement dealing wid
an agreement if you've got some outline of what you war
giving you some outlines of the types of topics you'd like to
areas. I think that a good faith attempt to get a, enter tr
major step towards a Utility Authority because it's going to
[*"can't understand what's said***] mechanisms.
COMMISSIONER BETTS: Are we, by doing
creating or help to create a monopoly for the City or 1
area?
ATTORNEY CASSELS. Well I think to a certai
duplication, just for duplication sake is not a good exper,
indented, does recognize that where one system is actor
system. So I think that's recognizing what you're saying
is a system already in the ground, in place. That's one o
and work out.
COMMISSIONER BETTS. This includes private
[*"can't understand answer***]
ATTORNEY CASSELS: Again, we're trying to
be it Beach Water or the City's Now if they have an e;
Statutes going to govern that, not your vote.
COMMISSIONER BETTS.* So the State's setting
ATTORNEY CASSELS. In certain ci
County by having those interlocal agreements.
COMMISSIONER BETTS: I don't have a
ATTORNEY CASSELS: Sure. Third page, secon
maps do not adequately reflect the service area claimed
redefining that map series to include what existing water 1
the City has. What existing water facilities Beach Water ha
Chapter 180, or whatever. So we would to that effect add
to actual facilities. Again, this is in the data and analysis j
you can get the better your analysis should be and the bets
that change.
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2
the same philosophy that I just spoke of a few
teals with conflicting or overlapping service areas.
1, 1994, the since we have two entities claiming
Statute dealing with tha4 and it's certainly in
d objection to the City's request that there be an
ervice areas. So it always is easier to obtain such
o accomplish and that's what numbers 1 - 7 are
over in an interlocal agreement to deal with service
an interlocal agreement on these areas will be a
Pe resolving those service area issues and allowing
don't have a problem with i4 it works. But are
Water by saying you can't duplicate service in an
!egrees there is a some Statutory recognition that
ire of public funds, so Chapter 180, where I have
being operated, then you cannot over build that
t there is some monopolistic concept where there
ie reasons why an interlocal is a good idea to try
doesn't it?
careful not to endorse anybodies service area,
area but State Statute, they've got it and State
monopolies not instead of us.
But we can make that work easier in our
with it 1 just...
,14 there was some concern by the City that the
them. The staff certainly has no objection to
hies the City has. What existing sewer facilities
d what claimed facilities both are making under
,uple of more maps to show claimed as opposed
ion of the plan which is designed the more data
gur plan should be, so staff has no objection to
Third page is really a redefinition of alternatives. In some f the studies we indicated originally in the Plan
that we were going to asses all alternatives. The City wished to have some of those alternatives listed
specifically itemized in the sub -heading. So to, if we're A a'ng to do that, staff has no objection we added
several more options and we also just made it clear that th 9se options include but are not limited to again
... <turned tape over>... some options and alternatives an4 Oade it clear that those are not exclusive.
Page six, bottom ce14 the City requested any acknowledg
the City wastewater system. It's our understanding that it
therefore we certainly have no objection to stating that.
that the Craig Smith did not include a study of
,ot report on any, on the City wastewater system,
Page seven, the City has requested the County delete from the Data andAnalysis portion of the plan, references
to the cooperative agreement with SFWMD. The City assei is that this was not signed and available prior, for
inspection, prior to the plan adoption on April 2, 1992 e don't necessarily agree with that. However, we
FILE
certainly have no objections to deleting that reference if
no objection to deleting that [***cant understand wha
3
facilitate a settlement of this matter, so staff say
d***] source.
The intergovernmental coordination elements, second ce 4 again this is restating the desire to reduce wasteful
duplication. Keep in mind that all duplication is not necessarily by definition wasteful Some times
duplication is necessary and even desirable. But wasteful
fu duplication is like wasting any form of governmental
facilities is not particularly desirable. So we have no obic ion to including these goals. Again, we are talking
about goals for planning.
Page eight intergovernmental coordination elemen4 the c
overlapping boundaries that was really more intended to
tend to overlap, however there was a concern whether tha
subsidently we do not have overlapping water and sewer fa
and therefore we have no objection to this change.
Page nine, future land use element. This is a restatement
a commitment by the County to strive to produce a wor
shown here. In the stipulation itself that you were provid
also likewise strive to enter into the same interlocal agreem
in the Comprehensive Plan that the City is going to do
stipulation that we're both, the County's going to try to en
City and the City's going to try to enter into this agree
encourage growth and development in the County.
Finally, back to the data and analysis, sanitary sewer, soj
actual text reference by SFWMD [***can't understand wo,
was as to a list of sources and this is the actual text it do
this summary and you have a complete text of the deletio,
the City objects to using this material as they feel it is
adoption of the plan in order to settle the litigation staff
So that's really, if you can follow that what we've been
point were we can have closure on this and not contin
issue, and I'll be glad to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY How long has the City
ATTORNEY CASSELS.• I gave copies of this doc
the actual text was given to them the same time it was
think Mr. Drago was there together with two Councilme
CHAIRMAN HARVEY Have you heard anything
nal plan indicated that we did have current have
drainage because some of the drainage facilities
)uld be implied to be water or sewer facilities and
ties because we have no water and sewer facilities
the desire to enter into a interlocal agreement and
hle, useful interlocal agreement along the outline
last week there was a commitment by the City to
Naturally [***can't understand what's said***]
mething however it would be appropriate in the
into this stipulation, into this agreement with the
ent with the County to address these issues, to
paste, drainage element again this is deleting the
*J in the previous [***can't understand word***]
0 on for considerably more than I concluded on
your materials that I gave you last weep Again
a source available for inspection prior to the
no objection to this deletion.
Fig over for a year, hopefully we've gotten to the
spend every ones time and efforts litigating the
this document?
I'm not talking about the chart I gave you but
to you, last Thursday evening, a week ago. 1
I believe.
from them?
ATTORNEY CASSELS: I talked with Mr. Cook ya terday, who indicated that Mr. Morell was still
reviewing the changes, the proposed changes and it would next week before they would have a comment
back on that.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY Mike (O'Connor) when
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR The 6th.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY This is just a thought of n
of any value to hold a joint workshop meeting after they m
cause we just keep throwing it back and forth, back and j
costing everybody money. And we're not getting any where.
meeting after they have time to go over it and agree to it. I,
today, but I think if we can all get together, sit down, wi
straightened out. But when it leaves from here and goes othe
then some more changes come back and I just feel like if wo
what they want and we're satisfied with what we wand the to
up and we're through with it.
Ill meet again?
e, I'm wondering if we would be, if it would be
and go over this thing and try to get it together
tl, from one attorney to the other and it's just
just feel like maybe if we had a joint workshop
ve no problem myself agreeing to this document
our two jobs we could probably get this thing
laces, it's another weep two weeks, three weeks,
an have this meeting and the City satisfied with
John's (Cook and Cassels) can drawn this thing
ADMINISTRATOR CHINAULT,• Mr. Chaim
it, but in conjunction with what you're saying would
agreement go ahead and have the Board adopt the agref
and wanting to settle and being right upfront about it a
do the same on the 6th4 however, should they not be ab
those points, as you say, that can of worms doesn't keep
bodies rather than the two John's (Cook and Cassels)
there are disagreemen4 instead of the whole dad gon a
CHAIRMAN HARVEY That sounds good to
ATTORNEY CASSELS: I was pleased, as I i
Cook that we sat down and some of the language cha;
were my suggestion, I thought it was a very productive
But I presented it to you in a form that you could ad
CHAIRMAN HARVEY.- Mike, I don't want
Councilman of tha4 having a joint meeting try to iron
, might I make a suggestion that and you can reject
be possible to, if the Board is supportive of the
nt and therefore you are on record as being for this
Bing to these terms and then hopefully the City will
9 do tha4 perhaps a meeting could be held just on
wing bigger and bigger, just meet and have the two
two bodies, just talking about those things where
W worms.
to you on the 17th with my meeting with Mr.
e his suggestion, some of the language change
I understand his need to consult with others.
d you wish to do so.
at you on the sp04 but how do you feel as a
thing out?
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: I think tha ould be an outstanding idea to have the workshop
so that we would know wha4 if ya'll are going to adopt t today, the way that it is, we will know that going
into our meeting the 6tc, and then we can make some 6 ecision on it and then a workshop after tha4 cause
I'm not as optimistic to think that it's going to pleas all iands, but I don't know.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY What does the other
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: [***can t
COMMISSIONER HUGHES: I do too.
Members think about maybe adopting this or...
what is said***] think it's a real good idea.
COMMISSIONER CLOSE. • Mr. Chairman I'll m gve that we approve this settlement and also in that
motion that after the City, on the 6th, has their meeting t t if there are any areas that are not resolved with
the City that at that time we schedule a joint workshop Witi i he City Council and County Commission as soon
as possible to resolve any of those issue.
COMMISSIONER HUGHES. Second.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY,• Okay we have a motion
proposat
ATTORNEY CASSELS. Prior to any vote 1
the audience, as this is a public hearing.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY Is there any one in the
***No response on tape.*** Could we, should we tem,
said***] agree to this...
ADMINISTRATOR CHINAULT,• Mr. Chairnu
then we have to change it, if you'd just give us the direct'
out so it's compatible with both bodies depending upon yoi
(Cook and Cassels) and we'll be in a position where we
hoping we don't need ii; if that's okay.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY Is there any further
All that was heard on
a second to approve and adopt this settlement
that you would take any comments from
-e, public would like to comment on this?
set a meeting [*"can't understand what's
other than having the Board set a meeting and
I'll call Mr. Drago and the two of us will try it
:hedule. We'll be less optimistic than the John's
D ahead and have something set up tentatively
on the motion? If not all in favor say yes,
was yeses.
Opposed, no. Motion Canted John (Cassels) I'd just like it; say, just commend you and Mr. Cook both on
the work that you did on this thing I think ya'11 came a to way, I know ya'11 spent a lot of time and effort
on this thing.
ATTORNEY CASSELS. • Thank you. ,
Tyr �.?
ATTORNEY CASSELS: Thursday afternoon
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: Thursday e
all of the data that John (Cassels) had wanted char
cause that only really gave them, !f they got it Thursd
know what lawyers work on Saturdays and Sundays
it. And we had this other thing going also with Bee
reasons that it didn't get looked at, I'm not going to t
I wouldn't do that. Obviously and this isn't a slam c
more semicolons and dotting your "i's" and cross,
therefore that's what they were looking at. At our I
brought up about the litigation and that's what the a
still studying some things and they're going to get I
Tuesday night. I said are you going to get this to
meeting here and they said, John Cook said no he v
gotten the rest of it all taken care of what they wantei
have it for this morning. They said it would probabl
another week because we had quite an extensive Ic
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: Mr. Chairman, whb
against one ... (O'Connor - say again, oh, that's fine, I
Cook's letter was written on the 2&h and he says part
you to aware LQ -9-4cd you on'W-Jrieu , aK— 234d t 1-y"`1
In W- do unent wisdaPs Jivat u.J,,rJ a aou#e of clays fialot, we G:tu
and he says you know, minor, minor but that minor
they've had it since the 23rd and he's saying that we
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moon, they did not have time enough to go over
?d in there from Thursday until Tuesday, okay,
afternoon, they had Friday to work on it, I don't
it then they had Monday and to Tuesday to do
Water and I don't know if that was one of the
ind answer for them because I don't know and
lohn (Cassels), but obviously it was just some
your "t's" that needed to be looked at. So
meeting which was two days ago. This was
mey told us and that him and Mike Morell are
rk over here to John (Cassels). ! asked them
7n (Cassels) before or on the morning of this
ild not have, they would not have time to have
get back to John (Cassels) so that you could
►e another week. The best of my knowledge,
meeting that night.
I was just going to point out and it's like five
y have at it)... I was going to point out that Mr.
f an excerpt from it and it's written:
l d�G�e dYjo P wcu d- iaat -&.VIa a.J tnaeRiln y
to ►Wage some ma:oa yet IW�Mtant akan9ea to tQ LW5uayz"
►ould be important, but minor. So you know
7tend to make some minor changes.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: Far be it for a to answer for an attomey when they say how
long or.assume or what is minor and VVI and dot's an, Pt's" and all that. And ! don't think that you and
I are qualified to get into that one what attomey's, they like to boast at one another and walk
around like roosters and get their best shots at one a nDther,
ATTORNEY CASSELS: Mr. Chairman at the risk of,playing with and I certainly don't wish to do so
cause I've worked very hard, I think. Mr. Cook has worked very hard to try and settle this. Mr. Cook
and I spent the better part of June 17th working over, Mr. Cook and Mr. MorelPs draft. It was not my
draft. I made an earlier draft that they rejected and had prepared their own draft that was given to me
the evening of the 16th.
I spent the evening of the 1Wh at my home lookin 7 over it and deciding that there were some
substantial changes in there that I needed to talk w" h John (Cook) about. Which I called him the
morning of the 17th, which was a Thursday, John (Co was gracious enough to agree to come over
about 1 o'clock that afternoon on the 171h.
We spent all afternoon working on it. Mr. Royce was h
And I was so happy with that meeting, I really was. I tc
I thought the County should have a problem with it i
what's your reason for this, is there something that wi
John (Cook) himself suggested the word to be chang
ink pen on that draft of Mr. Morell's. Certain langu
objection to it. As a matter of fact at one point there
dictaphone and made final changes, John (Cook) dic
However, and as ! indicated both that night when w
meeting. John (Cook) indicated that Mr. Morell had
(Cook), controlled the litigation and he was the City,
have to have the final document reviewed by Mr. Moro
the afternoon I would put those final changes we had c
3 and 5 that afternoon and gave Mr. Cook a copy alon
that were there, Mr. Drago and yourselves on the eve
e. Where I had a problem I told John (Cook).
John (Cook) why I had a problem with it, why
f asked John (Cook) point blank, you know,
an come to an agreement on. Some places
and we made the change right there with an
e I suggested, John (Cook) didn't have an
ss a paragraph that We sat with a hand held
F have a problem with that.
3d the meeting and ! indicated it at the last
seen those last changes but that he, John
rney and not Mr. Morell. But that he would
I indicated when John (Cook) left about 3 in
ussed into written form, which I did between
ith Mike and the other City Councilmembers
7 of the 171h.
John (Cook), I believe, indicated at that time, you knov r, it's not final, it's not in stone, we still have to
review it, there might be some minor changes. But ! left with the impression that they would be
minor changes. I was also, maybe it was my hopeful a4 s mption that we can get this thing settled that
I would be receiving something within the next few
17th we were talking about having special meetings
Thursday. We did not have that. I pointed out to yo
had not completed it's review, and I think Mr. Chin
document and put it over to them so that they had s
they could settle the litigation as written. And known
[***can't understand what's said***] changes, sp
changes. So that was done. Its been over 20 days
bit surprised at Mr. Cook's letter indicating there were
that impression, maybe l just misread him, that's why
else to do. We had good settlement conferences. I c
than backwards. I continue to be optimistic. I think pj
could be resolved through they summit meeting tr
Council and County Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER PORTER: Mr. Chairman, h
said***] is that John (Cassels) has worked diligen
John (Cassels) stated that things had been worked
just surprises me it's been 20 some days with no t
ADMINISTRATOR CHINAULT.' Mr. Chairman,
reiterate that on June 24th you did direct me to co,
between the Board of County Commissioners and the
that was acceptable to hit the problem areas, if any, ti
to focus just on those as opposed to rehashing any c
with Mr. Drago the afternoon of the 251h, the followinc
would check with individual Councilmembers, check i
and I assume he is in that process. So I'm waiting to
regard to a date we'll try to get that cleared with your
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: This was on what
ADMINISTRATOR CHINAULT: The 25th, your
the 25th.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: Ya'li still haven't gotten
ADMINISTRATOR CHINAULT,' He hasn't
Council.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: we just hac
the final analysis came out from our attomey as to how
call John (Drago) or I could tell John (Drago) to call,
ADMINISTRATOR CHINAULT: I'll call him
3
ys. Because if you recall on the evening of the
the City Council in time for your meeting on that
on the following Thursday meeting that the City
jit made the suggestion that you inter into the
meting that they could work with, so they feel
i of coarse that there might be a few you know
fling errors, lawyers make mistakes, and minor
I haven't gotten a response back. I was a little
mportant other changes because I hadn't gotten
ade the response that I did. I don't know what
n't know, hopefully we're moving forward rather
bly, if there are some misunderstandings they
you had spoken of having between the City
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: I think so m
(Cassels) or the other John (Cook). I think so many ti
Commission that we sit there and we want to hear go
And attorney's be what they are, are still human and the
they will say sometimes, well we're getting close and t
and say "close", well now close is getting right, it's
sometimes that they may think that they are. This is ju
fair opinion, and not trying to slam either one of them.
and in a sense, but, and they may think that they are c
there that confuse the issue. Like "minor" and your not 4
are out of either one of the attorneys. What minor char
and I've said all along, the only way that you can really r
and I think that the workshops work the best. Between
all the commissioners and the councilman up there anc
what's the problem, because otherwise all you hear is
as it is really being said. And this way here all five of y
all I wanted to (***can't understand what's
pith Mr. Cook and it was my understanding as
verbiage wise between the two of them and it
)nse, I'm just amazed, I really am.
st to follow up Mr. Cassel's comments and
ct Mr. Drago and try to schedule a meeting
ly Councilmembers and come up with a date
the City had with regard to the document and
ar issues, try to move forward with it. I spoke
iy of your meeting and he advised me that he
fr schedules and get back with me on the date
ar from him. As soon as I hear from him with
iedules and go ahead with what we're doing.
that you talked to him?
was on the 24th and I spoke with him on
on the date?
me of the date that is acceptable to the
meeting night before last and this is when
y thing is. I think possibly either you should
or something.
times and again this is nothing against John
s that being on the Council or being on the
things, we want to hear how close we are.
Don't like heat anymore than you or I do. And
7 I think, you five and us fire sitting up there
fting good and they're really not as close
ny own opinion of this and I think that it's a
,ause they're telling us what we want to hear
se but then these little glitches come up in
ing to get a definition of what minor changes
s are to you may not be to the other. I think,
� this thing down, speaking simply for myself
e County and the City to were you can have
ren they can point directly ask the attorney's
at they bring back to you. You don't hear it
can ask our attorney and all five of us can
ask your attorney and it's right there in the open and
third hand getting back to you.
COMMISSIONER BETTS: Mike (O'Connor),
John's, your John's (Cook) draft at your meeting
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: No, no,
updated on what, that there some, these minor c
what the minor changes are no more than I am e
the dotted "i's" or commas.
know what's being said, it's not second and
ya'll have the opportunity to make changes to
make changes to it. No we did not, we were
again that needed to be done, I don't know
ig ya'll know what the minor changes are, or
COMMISSIONER BETTS: I guess I've got a problem understanding how lawyers operate too.
If your attorney wrote the draft, your attomey's wrote t 7e draft and brought it over and they jointly made
the changes that they agreed needed to be changed ought not be a whole lot, did all of a sudden he
just decide he waat's to change something else.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: I don't
ATTORNEY CASSELS: Mr. Cook and Mr. M
and we together made language changes. That's
just thought it up I would have been more under
COMMISSIONER BETTS: That's were we
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: okay, then
a workshop so that you can ask him.
that he wrote it, did you write it, who wrote it?
e the basic draft, I sat down with Mr. Cook
know, if I'd gone into a room by myself and
of the need for substantial changes.
problem.
why I think even more .that we should have
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: Mr. O'Connor I want t address the workshop. Mr. Chinault is saying
that he contacted Mr. Drago ...(O'Connor - right)... th address
which is 13 days ago and he hasn't heard
from him.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: Tommy we uldn't give you an answer on it until after our
meeting which was only a day and a half ago. We had t have a meeting to hear what our attorney was
going to say before we could get back with Mr. Chin It to let him know.
COMMISSIONER CLOSE. So when will Mr. D�o call back?
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: Well I'm sure that it will be ... (Close - did ya'll set a date for
the workshop)... yea, we had to have our meeting befori P we could give you a date when the workshop
was going to be and if in fact that's what we wanted to o and I was kind of waiting to hear today when
this litigation part came back to John what he was goil I to tell you if that's what we're going to do for
sure now and then Chinault and Drago can get toget r and make it up.
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: Mr. Chinault's saying 's contacted him on the 25th saying we need
to get together, give us a date.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: we couldn't
that was just this past Tuesday.
COMMISSIONER CLOSE. Alright, at that
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: No we did
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: See I happen to agi
you keep saying we got to get together, I agree with
guess what we need to do is give them a date and
Chinault call Mr. Drago at noon)... to me we're not buy
big deal so let's get together.
you the date Tommy until after our meeting
did ya'll set up a date?
with you 1000/6, 1 happen to agree with you,
So we've said to ya'll give us a date, so I
s get together ... (O'Connor - fine, have Mr.
g a piano here we're building a box. Its no
We already built the box, we just keep
from side to side.
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: I mean it's just go,
said***] they've got changes, there's going to be 10
talk about it.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: Fine,
handled. That kind of meeting would get it very
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: Okay, so we
ADMINISTRATOR CHINAULT: I'll get back
suggested, over the lunch recess [***can't undersi
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: There's no use having a
John Cassels, and the County Commissioners unles
this thing, the two John's agree on every thing, we a
I don't know whether ye'll do or not, but we do, then
I can't, I've got to review this, I can't go along with this
the thing [***can't understand what's said***]. As
Morell and that's strictly none of my business, but if
at the meeting there's no use setting a meeting.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: No
5
to that big of a (***can't understand what's
`us sitting there, tell us those changes and we'll
I believe very earnestly that it could be
the 25th for this day, so should we.....
the phone as the Councilman (O'Connor)
what's being said here***]
►tang between the City Council, John Cook,
a're going to have Mr. Morel/ there. We get
on what the two John's has agreed on and
send it off to Mike Morell, then he says no
got to change this and we just keep hashing
as the City is going to continue to use Mike
going to be your advisor, if he's not sitting
with him being there sir.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: And that's my point. Wh:feed
hese two John's work it out, and we agree to
it, and like I say, I don't know if ya'll do or not, but we to the changes that John Cook wants then
and we agree to it and ya'll take it up and bundle itand sent it to Mike Morell and he says no I'm
not going along with it, I've got to change it.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: I don't
you Charlie, there's no problem with that
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: In setting up this meeting I
if not, there's no use setting one up.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: And you
Drago today.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: Yaw going to continue to
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: Yes sir his
of....
problem with it, I agree whole-heartedly with
to know if Mike Morell is going to be there,
put that in your request or your call to Mr.
Mike Morell?
attorney that they use period for that type
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: It's just like I may have tol ou one time before we could take this same
package after our two John's agreed on it and send it Ool Mark Lawson and I guarantee you he's going
to write two pages of changes or some things that n to be changed and send it back to us and
we can just seesaw back and forth.
COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNOR: well I have r
that's speaking for Mike (O'Connor) but I'm sure that
***END OF VE
oblem with what you just said sir, that's fine,
can make that happen.
TIM***
FILE
FI � L Lt.
VERBATIM OF COUNTY
JULY 8, 1993 - ITE
ADMINISTRATOR CHINAULT: Mr. Chairman
particular with Councilman O'Connor, I'm sorry that h
Mr. Drago again. I spoke with Mr. Drago at 10:50 an
particular date. Mr. Drago indicated that there had
juncture that Mr. Cook, the attomey for the City proi
Commissioner's signed joint City/County agreement.
that with such a counter proposal that he'd want yoc
comment, valuate prior to a joint meeting, to discuss t
instructions you gave me on the 24th, which was tha
that the City had. So I'm not sure what's going on M
Cassels if he's received that counter proposal.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: Have you received that
ATTORNEY CASSELS: As a quarter to 12 I
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: Mr. Chairman, I ap
meeting on the 24(h. And if /, just listening to a little t
today, 1-think that it's agreed upon that the two bodies i
County Commissioners. And you know not re -hashing
Mr. Chinauit has mentioned again that he's contactec
something this morning and he's dancing, so and the
sitting out there in the audience telling me how to do
that fellow is not doing, he's not going up to his manag
to join in. He's dancing well we just had a meeting /as
suggest is that we individually get a hold of the other
where, what time and let's sit down and work this i
administrator has, I don't see how he can do anymore
what more he can do, and I appreciate that. I apprec
COMMISSIONER BETTS: Why don't we have
COMMISSIONER CLOSE. And / don't mind
individually and say, you know, I think we would be v1
think we've said that, and let's you know, maybe, I don
but.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY. You need to put, I don't
get a hold of the other Councilman, we'll work this
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: well I know what
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: You know because he no
as long as he's calling the shots he's the guy that's g4
who's going to have to do the negotiating and sett/
Councilman, get a hold of the Mayor and try and set
6
MISSION MEETING
6 CONTINUED
u had discussion among yourselves and in
not here. I did as you suggested and called
Iterated my request of the 25th of June for a
n discussion and that he understood at this
7g counter proposal to the Board of County
d that it was his recommendation, of coarse,
ttomey to review and have an opportunity to
counter proposal. I guess as opposed to the
w wanted to address the areas of difference
hairman, you might want to find out from Mr.
Mr. Cassels?
)gazed I was out of town when ya'll had the
of the [***can't understand what's said***]
wld get together, the City Councilman and the
'these [***canl understand what's said***],
aim on the 251h and he's contacted him at 10
Ply thing, because frankly I get tired of a fellow
and I'm agreeing. But there's one thing that
and saying hey, this is the facts of lift we want
Iluesday. So, if ya'll, the only thing that I could
,ouncilman's and say hey boys tell us when,
ng out. If that's okay with you. I think our
he just called him an hour ago, I don't know
to him sharing that conversation with us.
Chair get with the Mayor?
a Councilman, or two or three myself,
to meet basically any night, at any time, I
v if you could get hold of the Mayor today,
if you can talk to the Mayor, unless he can
I*cant understand what's being said***]
I know what you're saying.
to have Mr. Morell there or either, you know,
to have to settle it. I think that's pretty plain,
you know. We can still go that route, City
COMMISSIONER CLOSE. I'll try my best to get a /d of all five of them, if I can, by this evening.
If you all don't mind. And the message / would relay is that we need to get together and you all need
to bring all your guns and that includes Mike Morrell fr, in Tallahassee and you just tell us, you know,
some how there's a communication block between o r County Commission. and your City Manager,
and help us out and tell us when we can meet.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: This new draft deal or thei raft deal, that's the first we've heard of that
[***can't understand what's being said here***]
ATTORNEY CASSELS: They drafted the [***cat understand what's being said here***] Mr.
Cook agreed to the changes subject to one more tfft i king about it and minor review of it. I wasn't
expecting a counter proposal because I thought, if al omma was in a wrong place or this word was
too strong and this word was too weak, that's what I as expecting. But it was basically worked off
their draft
COMMISSIONER PORTER: Mr. Chairman, I wa
thing's headed for or where it's going, but I don't thin)
the comp plan litigation, I think there's definitely invc
Beach Water, you know, this involves the 201 service
know, I guess the 10 of us can sit down and talk abo4
about. I know I asked a question one time at one i
response like it was some kind of a trumped up ques
a question. If you ask a question, it's just a question.
or trying to nail anybody to the wall. But sometimes,
if you can't ask questions, you're not going to get an
Water has to fit into this thing somewhere in my opin
that area down there, that's what it's all about. They'ri
going to have any say so. This is a very complicated
given them the approval to build the water plant, yet j
I mean. You can build it, but don't order the valves
understand what's being said***] October '94 this
water/sewer task force thing first kind of got started,
what's being said***] there not too concerned if Be.
the City, you know they understand they're going to g
build their own water plant, that wasn't a problem, noH
to kind of just serve the customers they're serving al
Practicality says there's no way they can put in a sewe
City has to have the ability to expand, apparently they s,
this thing is ever going to get off the ground personally
not getting any cooperation from them at all.
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: My feelings, and/ do
I'm like you Steve (Porter), I've never quit anything in m
you fellows [***can't understand what's said***] thi,
it ain't going to get it gonna get any water and sewer sc
like to have that joint meeting, if they agree to it on the "
here today and I appreciate his involvement and I d
Tuesday, well what happened Tuesday, did ya'll agree
haven't had time. Personally as a City taxpayer, every tip
up Tallahassee, for a, I know the School System has a
big boys out of town and hey if it's surrender and say
sorry, I've mislead this group here, but let's quit spo
language and sit down, and if we can't do it, let's say
COMMISSIONER HUGHES: The last meeting
participation. 1 asked that that meeting be transcribed
what's said***] suppose to have been done, I don't re(
a document [***can't understand what's said***] an
we're not going for that, it's apparent so we have sc
volunteer to take a couple of Councilman and talk to t
not what I recall they were instructed to do.
CHAIRMAN HARVEY: I don't blame the boys there
like they want it. And j***canI understand what's sal
to do it [***can? understand what's said***] you know
for you to try to contact Mr. Cook in between lunch and
is purposing to do or what !***can't understand what
is the guy to try and find out what is happening or wha
proposal and going to get to it pretty shortly, let's take
alright boys this is what ya'11 changed, let's have a joint n
we agree to this in your change but we're not going to a
to say something here, I don't know where this
77e personally from my own standpoint, this on
es somewhere down the line this is involving
ea, whatever you want to call it, out there. You
this. I think it's going to be a hard thing to talk
the other workshops and I got kind of a bad
n or something. If you ask a question, it's just
wasn't even trying to put anybody on the spot,
ase things you have to ask questions. I mean
`ring resolved you know. Some where Beach
7. Because that's what this thing is all about,
rot going to be invited to this thing, they're not
tuation. I mean you know it's like the City has
u can't turn it on, so to speak, you know what
That really kind of bothers, I don't !***can't
rings been dragged out, you know when the
ou know some things !***can't understand
h pulls out, it's not going to be a problem for
into business for themselves, they're going to
ll of a sudden it's a problem, they want Beach
nobody else, that means they can't expand.
they have to have an ability to expand, like the
gad their debt service fee out. I don't see how
It is a very drawn out situation and we are just
know, but 1, about this joint meeting, cause
fe, but I'm ready to quit. I'm ready to say hey
:ounty's never had any water and sewer and
e surrender. Ya'11 do your thing. But I would
r, well you know, they've got a representative
,'t understand a lot about well we just met
meet with us. No, it was never said, we just
I think about pumping a bunch of big dollars
m for them, hired guns, when you get these
're sorry I'll be the one to say it to them, I'm
ling all this money and all this words and
► can't do it.
had when we discussed this with Council
I if that is completed [***can) understand
anybody, we were suppose to come up with
k down and discuss it again as a group and
r sort of miscommunication. I would also
7 and see if we can clarify it because that's
r trying to see that they've got everything just
**] I appreciate the fact that they're wanting
it, John (Cassels) would it be worth anything
)ming back to our meeting and see what he
said***] and I don't know maybe Mr. Cook
going on and then if they are sending us a
and look at it and see what it is. Then say
Ming and have Mr. Morell there and say okay
ee to this and you know, just take that thing
and pick it apart, if that is what is being proposed ..
what your thinking to.
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: I appreciate your afth
COMMISSIONER PORTER: You've got a lot of
COMMISSIONER CLOSE: you dad gum rightyc
and your patience, your our best thing.
[***can't understand what's said here***]
***END OF VE
8
- PII put a call in to him)... and I know
fe above all things.
mina Charlie
tough, I admire your backbone and stamina
TIM***