2000-09-12 Workshop w/ OUACITY OF OKEECHOBEE
SEPTEMBER 12, 2000 CITY/OUA JOINT WORKSHOP
SUMMARY OF DISCUSSION
CALL TO ORDER.
II. ATTENDANCE.
III. DISCUSS FIRE HYDRANTS WITHIN THE CITY OF OKEECHOBEE.
IV. ADJOURNMENT.
PAGE 1 OF t
Okeechobee Utility Authority Chair, Monica Clark called the workshop to order at 7:00 p.m.
Those in attendance were: Mayor James Kirk, Council members Chandler, Markham, Oliver, and Watford. City
Administrator Veach, City Attorney John Cook, Deputy Clerk Gamiotea, OUA Board Members Monica Clark, Steve
Nelson, Carl Leonard, Melanie Anderson, Jack Coker, and Kim Collier. OUA Executive Director L .C. Fortner, OUA
Attorney Tom Conely, OUA Finance Director Jim Paul, OUA Engineer John Hayferd. City Fire Chief Tomey, County
Commissioner John Abney, County Assistant Administrator Jim Threewits and Citizen Clayton Williams.
There was not official action taken atthis workshop. The purpose of the workshop was tc h ar from all p xitias regaruinc
the maintenance of current fire hydrants and installation of future fire hydrants. Who is rasnnr-sible for purchasing the!r,
and maintaining them. The OUA will be forwarding maps to the City Fire Department outliving areas where new wate
line upgrades will be implemented within the City.
OUA Chairperson adjourned the workshop at 8:30 p.m.
CITY OF OKEECHOBEE AND OKEECHOBEE UTILITY AUTHORITY
SEPTEMBER 12, 2000 - 7:00 PM - WORKSHOP
HANDWRITTEN MINUTES
MEETING CALLED TO ORDER:7:00 by Clark
THOSE ATTENDING:
Jim Kirk
Noel Chandler
Bob Oliver
Lowry Markham
Dowling Watford
Bill Veach
Lane Gamiotea
John Cook
Steve Nelson
Carl Leonard (Alternate)
Melanie Anderson (Alternate)
Jack Coker
Kim Collier
Monica Clark
Jim Paul
Tom Conley
John Hayferd, Keith Tomey, Clayton Williams, Jim Threewits, John Abney
When they formed the utility authority the fire hydrants were not addressed in the
interlocal except the maintenance agreemenct, we'd maintain those on line at that time,
we want to keep open discussion between the city county, buckhead ridge on this
issue, go around, have everyone
Oliver - city and oua have 1 issue, county another issues, split cost with oua and city,
don't know if county can make the same decision as the city
clark - city put in hydrants inside limits, outside developer or county paid, 480 on line
today, over 200 in city, much greater number that need to go into the county than the
city
oliver - part of business, bad decision in retrospec
kirk - is it your boards opinion when you put in new lines you shouldn't pay
clark - bylaws, developers, etc will pay for hydrants, any new lines tha tgo in will be
paid for by land owner or developer and we have not made an exception of that since
formed 5 years ago, county and deveoper
V terrace, new building denied permiting, what they decided to do, county levied
special tax to pay for hydrant all accessed to pay for hydrant, ea lot accessed, oua has
only been paying for one that needed to be replaced. We are trying to do replacement
lines right now, some fire hydrants are far apart, development has come in and the
question is do you want fire hydrants and that's what started this whole thing,
additional?
Clark - additional hydrants, city rule was 1000 feet apart, maintenance agmt is nfpa
standards depending on occupancy, 800 ft.
Kirk - oua not going to be putting any lines down the street and no hydrants unless
someone request and pays for them? Yes
clark - same policy you had
kirk - talking about street with houses with no developer involved your not going to put
a hydrnat in?
Clark - the way we've been doing it is we write letters to county, city and say we are
going to upgrade the system do you want hydrants.
Watford city paid for some a few years ago
clark - 4 hydrants 2 years ago
watford - don't know how they got paid for, don't remember council approving the
payment of them.
Lc - sent letter over there, adminis and fire chief letter back saying they wanted some
watford - we may have approved that, admin call sometimes, don't think abou tthe
whole issue when your called, unfortunate we didn't think about this many years ago,
feel like when we did this my opinion was the, and fire hydrants aren't part of the water
business, that's the logic here, from my stnad point i thought when we turned this over
and we were out of it, city out of the utility business and i gues we assumed that
everything going on now will continue except it's going to get better, and a lot of
aruguement why it'd be better, never dreamed we'd pay for anything we use to pay for,
the city didn't apy for those hydrants, the utlitity dept did and that's part of it, could see
if your buying a new fire truck, but that hydratn and everything under that hydrant is
utilities, where you break it off, oliver thought the 50 50 split appropriate and the city
may be lucky to get that, yall hold the cards here, if you say your not doing there is not
a lot we can do, it was turned over to the utility authoirty, agree w/ bob, 2 issues, county
issue isn't as well defined and I don't know how many hydrants the city needs,
understand for the county it's huge, the same people are papying for this, either out of
taxes or water bill, rather water bill, have more to spread it out, i think that's the way it
should be, we're already raising taxes, the city council has been deiligent with
spending, had to raise last year, raise this year, realize big issue with the county, if it
was just city
clark - we have to look at it the whole system
watford - just trying to defend city point here, how far do you need these hydrants,
same issue raised in the county, how far apart
clark - separate issue, can't have same whoever pays should say how far apart
watford - look at area to also see how many you need, logical stand point, why do you,
long speach to say what i said
kirk - having been one of the poeple who went through this process, had I had any idea
in my mind that we would be having a discussion on hydrants, we woulnd't be here
tonight, very unfortunate, it would have been a stopper at that point, i think
collier - essential to community that they see we're all inthis together wouldn't be
against 5050 split, not addressed in that agmt', for th ebenefit of how this authorty will
work in the future, think that's essential. Whole county and city so we're all benefiting,
and that is the reason why we formed the authoirty, glad to see us sitting down at this
workshop
chandler - interlocal agreement does address it, what they oua assumed responsibility,
all lines. Etc, obligations that of the city utilities (read from interlocal) apparantly we
nevery thought about it, if you put in a new line, you put in a hydrant and show you
where you put in new line put in utilities budget, even upgraded lines to hold hydrants,
it was in there, no one ever saw it, that's my view, think in our code book it addresses
that
veach - provision in code book, read section aloud,
chandler - everything in this transfer ya'll were goign to take it over, wells were never
addressed either but you took those, fire hydrant if you need it.
Clark - assume any current, new lines were paid for by land owners or developer,
where it comes into an issue is the maintaining in the lines, there had not been a lot of
maintenance where this became in issue because
chandler - se 5th avenue and 18th street,
clark - that was a new line
chandler - no extension and utilities paid for it
Ic - it was a new line, 70 east when it was widened.
Chandler - your saying anything
watford - there is no disagreemnt, new development developer pays, noel is saying the
city did the function when a line was upgraded, from the way your decribing your
treating the city as a developer or land owner
clark - it's an optiion
watford - if we want them we got to pay for them
clark - another example is everglades blvd, you can put themin every 1000 800 feet,
county put in 27 and paid for them, there were some areas that were not developed yet
on that street.
Nelson - agree with bob there is a problem I'm always the one that's straight forward, it
is my personal opinion, oua may want to consider paying half and move on to more
important issues, we are a byproduct of them, not fair for each to pay 100 percent, 50
50 split hole thing put to bed, my opinion may not reflect
jack - what ever we do for the city we have to do for okee county and glades county,
and we're talking about figures here that can get out there, it gets to be a little mind
bolging when you look at whole system, you asked us to furnish water for the area that
emcompases the area, if we take money and put in hydrants we all know where it's
coming from, you'd rather see it come from our uses, I'd rather see it come from your
tax payers, cannot simply do 50 50, going to fix itself, some burden in city and county
put on, replaced those, to say split it it bothers me, I'd like to move on with it even
though it has cos the consumer some money.
Chandler - we are in a unique position because the city had the only department,
jack - they gave things also
chandler - the interlocal says you will take responsbility of the utilities department and if
that is what they didi that is what you are suppse to do.
Jack - you feel city is specailly priviledged
chandler - according to agmt' yes i do
Watford - henges on where water supply verses fire fighting, firefighter says got to have
hydrant, got to have truck to, grand and glorius things to attrack industry don't you need
hydrants, sure but if you are trying to entice someone to come in here to show them
here we can give you something that the other county
carl - it's not a gift, somebody pays for it, city wants to be privildeged in this, county tax
payer, my taxes goes go rather than water rates, 37 cents a month and had people
complaining about that, more of an increase if we're talking hydrants.
Oliver - city doens't want to be priviledged just unique situation
carl - how do we have 3 separate rules,
olvier - do it all the same 50 50 put hydrant in split it
kirk - just for upgrading lines
jack - thats why i say it's goign to corrrect itself
clark - no necessarily true, county under certian rules, vacant lots that will not have fire
protection on that street, am I not correct, not sure we ar egoing to totally correct this,
as long as you have people doing in fill, so it's developer not necessarily land owner
kirk - theory upgrade line this year and you need 10 hydrants, 10 years from now same
line needs to be upgraded need another 10 hydrants, city pay again,
clark - as people build then now require hydrants when they get their permits so that
problem should be corrected it's only existing
jack - does not oua replace hydrants that we already had, that obligation we assumed,
kirk - only upgrade
clarke - only thing wrong is developer coming
kirk - only lines tha tare existing lines
chandler - 30 years ago houses far apart, when utility upgraded line the utility paid for
them within the city, we started putting in lines and we should have put more in, your
still doing the same thing, upgrading line
Ic - obligating interesting your taking tha tpoint, bonds we took over,
chandler - read it as whole obligation
clark - when we took it over how would we know what rules apply
chandler - city only one who had dept and rules
clark -
chandler - that wasn't the issues, if there is an upgrade in the city your should do as
they did
collier - no focus on past 30 years, but on future 30 yrs.
Kirk - if you ar echarging residents now when you put in line, why not do it?
Clark - that's is one way, done that in county, they use it special assessment, that is
another option.
Jack - when you open up, 50 lots, people build, you should get with your neighbor and
pay for the hydrants
kirk - that's an alterante we need to look at, may be only one we might all agree to
clark - same agreement with whole system
jack - have to be understanding, leaves a little bit of bad taste, fire hydrants, not park,
quality of water, take that and put that in one little place and that's what we get, your
tax structure is our rate structure
dowling - everybody pays water not everybody pays taxes
jack - but they get fire protection
kirk - got any place the we might be able to go on
carl - no doubt about it
clark - one of the questions i asked was how many people coming to council that they
don't have a fire hydrant in front of my street, none in 30 years
carl - jims' point is well taken, workable item and whether the city or who does it, seems
to make
collier - willing to levy assessment?
Kirk - rather not
collier -
tom - based on a special benefit,
watford, don'g have to agree to it just do it
tom - basically yes, like a street paving
watford - only one time and the people asked for it
clark - we can't tell these people they have to put a hydrant on their street
jack - we inherited 408 sewer customers hook up, maybe times are changing, houses
today ar ewilling to hook up, we're not 25,000 homes anymore, we're bbulidng 150,000
homes, hydrants cost, insurance will drop, estute people see this.
Watford - do we have an idea how many hydrants?
Tom - problem is need and water supply may not meet
jack - can't on 4 inch line
clark - replacing lines now they are
chandler - 10 or 20 year plan
clark - wish list based on revenues
Ic - have drawing here that shows some of those, forced to DOT four laned, roads have
to keep the money available
clark - what do we have on the books now
Ic - this is an older map, 441 N to cemetery road new water line, 70 West from RR to
replacing new lines, upgrades extend to 98, N 6th Street, could put hydrants on them,
some on them now NE section getting right and tying in, behind Usave on 4th Street
east, 7th avenue no hydrants in area, 9th avenue, okee estates, start puting in hydrants,
shorting lines, one at old fin in buckhead ridge
clark - put in perspective, none in oak park
watford - theory is none anyway unless you upgrade that line, nothing said about oak
park
clark - accept new standard and then put in new area, have to had same street,
kirk - only fair way
carl - only choice here
clark - who is going to determine where they go
fire departments
jack - good to see both parts, good understanding, why it's not a matter of just not doing
it but be fair to everybody
watford - any other tool?
Pumper trucks
clark - my dad and brother, clewiston, pumper truck have out before hooked up to
hydrant
nelson - example you can use, have to use alternates, extermely lucky this year and
last, drive into those communities where they couldn't use hydrants during a fire,
tremendous expenditure for a hugh tanker
clark - county uses that now they don't have hydrant, most county hydrants ar ein the
commercial areas only,
veach - i live in the county i wish they were
john - even if one is not required at this time, consider a t or plug so they could put one
in later
clark - every 800 ftt?
John - wherever, let that be part of your planning process, matter of what is ecquiliable,
and get the most out of it, when you have line extension thos who are going to benefit
should bear the cost.
Keith - no where in city more than 2000 ft
dowling - we don't' need any then
keith if they give us a map like this I could help them with planning.
Keith some areas, majority are less
clark - fire dept gets a rating
jack - good point, city doesn't have as mcuh as a problem
watford - if we only need 5 hydrants then lets pay for it and get it over with
jack -
clark - 3 years 6 hydrants, and replaced some