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1980-01-29 Workshop25 2 80-7 2) LAGROW IRRIGATION President Douglas read a letter from LaGrow Irrigation in regard to the City's breech of contract on final payment for the clearwell. --~ Councilman Burk stated for the record, Mr. Ron Dixon appeared before the Council representing Robert E. Owens Engineering Firm at the Tuesday, January 15, 1980, meeting. Councilman Burk read excerpts from that meeting's minutes. On the basis of the opinions of Ron Dixon stated at the January 15th meet- ing, Councilman Burk moved to deny payment to LaGrow Irrigation, seconded by Councilman Raulerson, vote carried. 3) WORKSHOP President Douglas reminded the Council of the Workshop set for Tuesday, January 29, 1980. B. OAKLAND CHAPMAN Councilman Chapman consulted the Fire Chief about the possible fire hazard created at the tire company on South 441, by piling up of tires. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, the meeting adjourned until the Workshop Session on January 29, 1980. Edward W. Douglas J Chairman City Counci~ City of Okeechobee ATTEST: Bonnie S. Thomas City Clerk City of Okeechobee WORKSHOP SESSION TUESDAY, JANUARY 29~ 1980 The members of the City Council for the City of Okeechobee, Florida, met in Workshop Session on Tuesday, January 29, 1980, at 7:00 P.M. Chairman Edward W. Douglas presided, with the following members present: Councilman Lytle Raulerson, Councilman Donald Burk, Councilman Jim Knight, and Councilman Oakland Chapman. Also present were the City Attorney, David Conlon; City Clerk, Bonnie S. Thomas and Fire Chief, Keith Tomey. 80-12 OKEECHOBEE REHABILITATION FACILITY Chairman Douglas read a report prepaired by Director of Public Works --~ L.C. Fortner, Jr., concerning the cost of Sanitary Sewer installation for the Okeechobee Rehabilitation Facility. Total cost being One Hundred Twenty-Two Thousand Six Hundred Twenty-Five Dollars ($122,625.00). 2583 Councilman Burk cautioned the Council about the expense of this project to the City. Councilman Chapman instructed Director Fortner to submit the report to the Rehab Facility. 80-15 FIRE DEPARTMENT MERGER Chairman Douglas opened the discussion of a possible merger of the Okee- chobee City and County fire departments. He requested Fire Chief Tomey to address the Council with a report of his studies relative to a merger. This report consisted of a three (3) part outline considering equipment, financing and ratings, (both insurance ratings and insurance service office ratings). Chief Tomey explained that with a merger of the two departments citizens' insurance costs would be reduced in some instances from Six Hundred Dollars ($600.00) annually to approximately Two Hundred Dollars ($200.00) annually. Chief Tomey suggested consideration of the Council be made relative to combining the E.M.S. (Emergency Medical Service) with the Fire Department, eventually. This would give the citizens more comprehensive protection for their tax dollar and with the use of our trained personnel save lives as well as fight fires. The possibility of Fire districts being set up was mentioned as well as budget projections for the next three (3) years. Chief Tomey expressed concern to the Council that much careful research be done in regard to Fire districts. One specific example pointed out was protection of the present employees (firemen) pension program. Some of our firemen have many years already into the plan. Chairman Douglas thanked Chief Tomey for his complete and timely presenta- tion. Councilman Knight noted the main concern of the City Council as pointed out by Chief Tomey is saving the tax payers money on insurance premiums, which would occur with a merger of the two fire departments. County Commissioner Jim Lashley was present not only as a Commissioner but as a tax payer very much concerned in aShieving a merger for the benefit of Okeechobee County. Attorney Conlon attempted to frame the issues the Council may choose to have in-put into as follows: The two main aspects of any agreement would be 1) the administration of the fire department and 2) the compensation or in-put for the payment of the services provided. Conlon further stated, in the administration of the fire department there are three choices 1) the City administer the entire program, 2) the County ad- 2554 minister the entire program or 3) have a joint Board, new Board, new taxing district, joint committee or some combination of such. As far as who pays for the services, the ratio in which people would pay for it does not have to be --~ connected with how it is administered. In other words, if it was decided the three choices County, City or combina- tion, and we suggested that it be completely City controlled, it could still be that the County could have a legal right if they wanted a sub-station anywhere, they could have one anywhere they wanted to put it, any equipment they wanted to put in they could have any number of people they wanted to pay the salaries for. But the communications, dispatching, administration would still come through whatever the City set up, if you decide it was the City. Attorney Conlon told the Council they need to decide how they feel about the basic agreement, if it should be 1) a City fire department~ getting some kind of compensation for going outside the City, 2) or if we should go out of the business and give it to the County, or 3) if we should look towards forming a new Board or new taxing district with a combination of the two. Councilman Raulerson stated he would prefer the City set the issue up, noting the City has its own equipment and fire station located within the City. He did not want to see it operate under any one government, more than one year. Councilman Raulerson felt if the two departments merged, he foresaw a taxing district assessing the amount of service a person can get for fire pretection. Councilman Raulerson stated his opinion would be that areas would be set up and sub-stations set up within these areas. As Chief Tomey pointed out, the amount of money that would be saved in insurance protection alone would more than pay for the taxing district that these people would live in for fire pro- tection. As far as payment is concerned Councilman Raulerson felt further study was needed. Attorney Conlon questioned if the taxing district would be a new governmental agency that would have a Board that is elected and assesses taxes City and County wide. Councilman Raulerson stated the Board would either have to be elected by the people or it would have to be members of the two existing Boards to serve on it. He felt the members of the two Boards should not have the right or authority to appoint new Board members to sit without the voice of the people. ~s far as he was concerned, Councilman Raulerson felt everything should be con- trolled by elected officials. Attorney Conlon advised that any change should be done by an Ordinance, which requires public hearings. Councilman Burk stated that it is one thing to go to the mechanics of where to put a fire truck. But when proceedures, Charters and what the respon- 2585 sibilities of both the City and County are researched, this is something else. Councilman Burk stated, it is immaterial who supplies the fire protection service as long as the citizens receive the best service possible. Councilman Knight felt the City Attorney should research the legal aspects of the change and try to provide the Council with more information. Councilman Knight reaffirmed his desire to meet monthly with the County Commissioners, noting the merger and the 201 Facility Plan needed a joint effort. Attorney Conlon pointed out the problems that will arise by setting up a taxing district. Then asked Jim Lashley if he thought the County would agree to reverting back to the original system of the City providing the service and just work out an agreement regarding payment. Mr. Lashley felt he could not speak for the entire County Commission. The City needs to submit a proposal and the County needs to submit a proposal. With figures from both parties an agreement can be worked out. Attorney Conlon pointed out that State law provides if no Cities in a County are providing municipal fire service and the County is, then it is to be paid for solely by the County. Councilman Burk stated, however the City Charter requires the City to pro- vide a fire service. In the past, the ratio of calls in the City and County was not a problem. However, with costs as they are today (gasoline, etc.) distance to the fires has become relevant. A percentage ratio has to be set. Councilman Burk felt this is not an insurmountable problem. Much of it could be handled just as it was before, and simply get together and agree what is best for all people who pay taxes, City, County or otherwise. Then go ahead and do the job. Fire Chief Tomey suggested a fifty-fifty (50-50) basis the first year. He felt it would be very difficult to go back for the past five (5) years to try to calculate a ratio because the cost of living, cost of equipment, etc. has in- creased so great in the past year.that it would be too difficult to determine a ratio. Attorney Conlon stated the problem is, if we were going to go back to what it was, we can not tell the County we will do fifty per cent (50%) this year and we will talk about it at the end of the year. We both need something solid 1) that we are going to divide it by the number of calls or, 2) we are going to divide it by the University of Florida's estimates each year of County population vs City population, we need something concrete. County Fire Chief Karr interjected that putting the two cost factors together will be hard because of the great difference in square miles covered. The main blocking point was that everyone maintain their job. County Chief Karr stated he had roughly drawn up a proposal where the City can basically save a quarter of 25 6 a million dollars within a five year plan, if they just subsidize the salaries. Karr further stated, in reverse, the County could do the same thing with a percentage of their total budget to the City. Attorney Conlon asked Mr. Lashley if the County is interested in taking over the service if the City contributed to the cost in some way. Mr. Lashley stated one of the Commissioners wants the City to take charge, two others felt the County is the larger of the two bodies so they should handle it. Mr. Lashley stated if the County were to take it over he would want to keep the better equipment at the City Fire Station, because the biggest part of the County fires are around the City limits. Chief Tomey noted when consolidation was an issue it was verified by Jack- sonville, if the two departments merge (County Fire and City Fire) along with the City Water Department and either is no longer run by the City, the City will loose the eight (8) rating it now has. This would cost the tax payers money. Councilman Raulerson stated the only problem he sees with giving the service to the County is, you give it to the County, the County asks for subsidy. That is fine. We are paying County taxes the same as a man just outside the City limits. We are paying more County tax per evaluation than the man that lives out there because we are in a more congested, more developed area with better protection. So our assessment is higher within the City limits than it is outside. Councilman Raulerson further stated we are paying more of a County tax than the County tax payer himself for like property. Then we turn right around and say we have to subsidize the fire department, so then the City becomes a taxing district for the fire department. Why should they pay more taxes than the people just immediately outside the CitY. This is one of the problems Councilman Raulerson is concerned with. Councilman Raulerson stated~ if the City operates the fire department and it is paid for on the pro rata basis, then he could see it. The City is then paying for what they get, and they are not paying twice. Councilman Raulerson noted the two departments merge a time limit has to be set on setting up fire districts. Councilman Knight stated, in his opinion, one of the most foolish things is the fact that we live in a County with a twenty-five (25) mile radius and we have two fire departments in the same town. We could have substations on the outskirts to take care of the County~ which is much more feasible. Councilman Burk submitted to the Council that, although it may have some value to get these hypothetical suppositions from the third party in formulating some type of proposal, these things are almost permature. Rather than being 25871 terribly concerned with what the third parties say, that none of the governing bodies have met, we should concern ourselves more with what the County would be satisfied with and what the City would be satisfied with. If i~ would be to go back to the formula we had, then proceeding cautiously from there and all the tax districts, ratings, distances, etc., iron those out as we go along. Councilman Burk asked Mr. Lashley if he felt the County would be interested in simply going back to what we had beforelwhere the City was suppling the service to the City and County and we were splitting the expenses. Commissioner Lashley stated the topic was discussed with no decision made. He felt, however, the main thoughts of the Commission was to better cover the entire County with substations, etc. Councilman Burk asked if the County governing body would be interested in having the substations immediately or sometime in the future. Commissioner Lashley stated the Commission sees a need in substations right away. Mr. Lashley expressed the desire to do this and work the problems out later. Councilman Burk asked Mr. Lashley what the County's biggest objection to the original agreement when it existed. Mr. Lashley felt the percentage was fair in one sense but then the City had the fire station already and the County felt there were a lot of brush fires eliminated do to the Forrestry Service. So the County felt they should have gotten a better break on the costs than they did. Councilman Raulerson felt the problem with the brush fire deal was that the City was being called regardless of the type of fire. The City had to respond even though some calls were for brush fires. Everyone present agreed that both City and County want to get the two depart- ments together. Councilman Raulerson said basically what is needed is a substation, for instance, in Treasure Island with a fire truck and a paid man on it that could respond at that moment. Then we need one or two others located in the County. Councilman Raulerson went on to say, if there is one radio system and the substation had a call and he responded, when he arrived he could determine the type of equipment needed. Then if need be the City would respond. If there were two or three substations in the County then Councilman Raulerson stated he could possibly see a fifty-fifty (50-50) arrangement between the City and County, with the City operating out of this point as long as the County set up their substations and financed them completely separate from the City. Even though, need be, we respond with back up units to these areas. This would all be handled from a central place. Attorney Conlon asked if Councilman Raulerson's proposal is that the City would have the total County wide fire responsibility with any substations being 25 S put in by the County and totally financed by the County. That the substations be a separate budget item. Plus the County would pay the City one-half (½) of it's Fire Department operating budget and the City would direct the distribution of men. Councilman Raulerson agreed. Mr. Lashley noted there were definite plans for the setting up of two (2) substations in the works. Then some of the County firemen could be used to man the substations and still fall under the same firefighting system. Councilman Knight requested that copies of the meeting's minutes be given to the County Commissioners to study prior to their regular meeting. Councilman Knight moved that the County Commissioners and City Council hold a joint meeting to discuss the fire departments and the 201 Facility Plan. WORKSHOP DATES Council set up Workshop dates as follows: 1) Thursday, January 31, 1980, to discuss Ordinance #402, Mobile Home setbacks and OUsley waterline agreement. 2)Thursday, February 7, 1980, to discuss 201 Facility Plan wi6h Frederick Bell Engineers. Tuesday, February 19, 1980, to discuss the Fire Department merger and 201 Facility Plan with the County Commissioners. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business the meeting Recessed until Thursday, January 31, 1980, at 7:00 P.M. ~dward W. Douglas J ~ Chairman City Counci City of Okeechobee ATTEST: Bonnie S. Thomas City Clerk City of Okeechobee RECESSED MEETING THURSDAY, JANUARY 31, 1980 The members of the City Council for the City of Okeechobee, Florida, met in Recessed Session Thrusday, January 31, 1980, at 7:00 P.M. Chairman Edward W. Douglas presided with the following members present: Councilman Lytle Raulerson, Councilman Donald Burk, Councilman Jim Knight and Councilman Oakland Chapman. Also present were Bonnie Thomas, City Clerk; David Conlon, City Attorney and L.C. Fortner, Jr., Director of Public Works.