1985-08-26 Workshop Meeting3791
WORKSHOP MEETING MONDAY, AUGUST 26, 1985
85-7 The City Council and the County Commissionees met in a workshop
meeting at 304 Northwest 2nd Street, Okeechobee, Florida, at 7:30 P.M.,
Monday, August 26, 1985. The following City Councilmembers were present:
Mayor Oakland R. Chapman
Vice -Mayor Andy Rubin
Councilman Nick Collins
Councilman Oscar Thomas
Councilman Edward Douglas
The following County Commissioners were present:
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Commissioner
Jim Lashley
J.C. Bass
Charles Harvey
Clif Betts
Jim Broome
Others present were:
L.C. Fortner, Jr., Administrative Assistant
Bonnie S. Thomas, City Clerk
Jerry Bryant, City Attorney
Kyle VanLandingham, County Attorney
Keith Tomey, City Fire Chief
Phil Roman, County Fire Chief
Lydia J. Wilkerson, Deputy Clerk
Sue Ocher, Deputy Clerk
85-30 The meeting was called to order at 7:35 P.M. by Commissioner Jim
Lashley for the purpose of hearing guest speakers Fire Chief Rogers from
Ft. Pierce, and Fire Chief Brice from Palm Beach County.
Fire Chief Rogers stated that he was not interested in getting
involved with the politics, but only present to explain the advantages and
disadvantages of St. Lucie County system. St. Lucie County is set up as an
independant special taxing district, independent from any other governing
body. Thirty-five years ago, St. Lucie County was in a similar situation
that Okeechobee County is now facing. St. Lucie County chose to set up a
special taxing district with two City Council members and two County
Commissioners and one member to be appointed by the Governor to complete
their fire board.
The Special taxing district was funded by a fifty-fifty contribution
from the City and County.
In 1955, St. Lucie County had on their ballot, a Special Taxing
District so that they could levy up to 3 mills to support their fire
budget. Presently, St. Lucie County has a 1.75 millage rate with two City
Councilmen and two County Commissioners and one member appointed by the
governor to complete the fire board. The members of the fire board are
interested in every aspect of the community and has been very successful.
Okeechobee has a rare opportunity in forming a similar system in the
community. We must keep in mind that we have got to provide the best
possible emergency system, better service, and utilize the manpower and
equipment that we already have at the time.
Okeechobee has a professional department that is appreciated by the
citizens but the system should only have one boss. Both the fire chiefs
are fine individuals, but we must over come this hurdle.
! Fire Chief Rogers suggested the individual taxing district as the best
route for the community of Okeechobee.
Fire Chief Brice, from Palm Beach County stated that Palm Beach County
waited too long to combine their services and as a result had many problems
to overcome. Palm Beach County had ten fire departments to combine and
different levels of service and equipment. The system in Palm Beach County
was set up by the State independent of the County Commission except for the
- fire department budget. The County Commission approved the budgets for the
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fire department. The fire consolidation, fire and EMS service is an
expensive service. Utilizing personnel and providing equipment is Okay,
but the start up cost for the first few years is very expensive. In the
future this initial cost will pay off. In later years the system will
become more cost effective.
Fire Chief Brice stated that he felt that Okeechobee had a golden
opportunity to set up an individual taxing district. He did not want
anyone to feel like he was trying to tell us how to set up an individual
taxing district, only that consolidation of the two dire departments had
great merit and we should not miss out on this opportunity.
Councilman Rubin asked, "There was a problem with lay off's in Palm
Beach County when your departments were merging, wasn't there?" Fire Chief
Brice answered, "No, we had an ordinance that prevented the lay offs".
Commissioner Betts asked, "What position did you create?" Fire Chief
Brice answered, "We brought in an outside person for fire chief. I had 6
months before the consolidation to study the situation. We had 50 people on
the management team and we had 550 employees and 3 department chiefs."
Commissioner Harvey asked, "Did you keep all of the personnel?" Fire
Chief Brice, "We eliminated one person."
Councilman Collins asked, "Which system is the best, County Commission
or independent taxing district?" Fire Chief Brice answered, "In our
situation, the County Commission had worked very well - but that is for our
community. Each community must choose what is best for them."
Mayor Chapman asked, "Do you charge for rescue service?" Fire Chief
Brice responded, "No, there are several alternatives, such as Ad Valorem
taxes."
Commissioner Lashley stated, "Private ambulance services charge."
Fire Chief Brice responed, "Yes, EMT's serve until ambulance service
arrives. All transporting is done by private service."
Fire Chief Roger stated, "St. Lucie County charges $60. for EMT
service. If we didn't charge a token amount we wouldn't be treating the
tax payers fairly."
Commissioner Harvey asked, "Which is better independent or comission?"
Fire Chief Rogers answered, "Independent is better. When the independent
board walk in to a meeting they only have one thing on their mind and
that's the fire department. They are only concerned with the fire
department and its budget and can express their concerns on fire service."
Commissioner Harvey asked, "How do you tax?" Fire Chief Rogers
answered, "We tax by ad valorem taxes in the county, not double taxation.
You pay according to the value of your home, less Homestead exemption.
Each member of the board, with exception of the commission, gets paid $5.
to $10. per meeting."
(Councilman Douglas arrived at the meeting at 8:15 P.M.)
Councilman Collins said, "On the independent service you have 2
members from the City and 2 members from the County with one member at
large. How do you pay them for their services?" Fire Chief Rogers
answered, "We pay the members $5. for regular meetings and $10. for special
meetings. The County members can not be paid for their services."
Councilman Rubin asked, "Are all of your personnel cross -trained?"
Fire Chief Brice answered, "2 per ALS units, 110 are paramedics and now of
the 135 men most are fire-fighters and EMT's. New hires will be both fire
fighters and EMT's."
Commissioner J.C. Bass asked, "What percentage of your population is
exempt?" Fire Chief Brice answered, "In Palm Beach County we have a great
number of mobile home parks, condo's that don't pay. The people wanted to
move away from ad valorem taxes but this is not too smart."
Commissioner Harvey asked Fire Chief Rogers, "How many fire stations
do you have at this time?" Fire Chief Rogers answered, "We have 8
buildings right now, and another 2 will be built by September. Next year
we will add 2 more to the community."
Commissioner Harvey asked Fire Chief Rogers, "Is there a fire tax?"
Fire Chief Rogers answered, "Yes, there is an impact fee imposed where
possible this is a method of getting the money up front."
Commissioner Harvey asked, "If we consolidate and have an independent
board, would they have full authority over the fire tax budget or fire
district board or would you recommend a board only?" Fire Chief Rogers
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answered, "You can do it either way. If an advisory board is chosen this
gives the County Commission the job of being overseer."
Fire Chief Brice added, "In my opinion, leave the advisory board out
of the first few years. We are professional in the fire service and we
know what the needs are. I would prefer to report to a fire board or
county commission rather than a board where you have to convnice the layman
the needs of the fire department. The ad valorem tax is a necessary tax
base, then you must look for other sources of funding to help with fire
assessment."
Commissioner Bass asked, "What about impact fees and an Advisory
Board?" Fire Chief Brice answered, "It would be just another board for the
fire department to go through". Fire Chief Rogers added, "The least amount
of bureaucracy the better. There is always suspicion between the City and
the County. The independent board would be a mixture of the County and the
City and would be best for the community. The independent fire district is
special and workable. There mus be a special legilative act in order to
vote an independent fire board into being. The legislator acts first, then
the citizens vote on it, then it comes into being. You can't do this
without going to the state. You can set up a board but you can't tax the
people without going through the legislature."
Commissioner Bass replied, "We haven't gotten to the legislature yet".
Fire Chief Brice stated, "Once you have the tax district set-up, the rest
of it can be handled."
Commissioner Betts asked, "How did you handle the transfer of
equipment?" Fire Chief Brice replied, "We did not have any problem with
transferring the equipment."
Commissioner Bass asked, "What about liabilities?" Fire Chief Brice
replied, "First, you have to decide if you are going to consolidate then,
you have to decide who is going to govern."
Commissioner Lashley asked, "Without going to the legislature, can't
we go ahead and run it with taxes as we have now?" Fire Chief Brice
responded, "Yes, it sounds like you are on the right track. Remember,
service for the least amount of dollars."
Commissioner Harvey stated, "We appreciate our visitors."
Commissioner Lashley stated, "This has been educational and for
nothing, too."
Commissioner Lashley asked if there were any questions from the
audience. Carl Strickland was recognized and asked if the City could
consolidate with a board set up by us rather than going to the legislature
- for example like the present system. Attorney VanLandingham explained
the funding of the special taxing district and Fire Chief Rogers explained
that double taxation would be a problem with the City and the County fire
board. This set up would be too political. St. Lucie County's system is
the best route to go and we should work toward this goal. We should hurry
and do it now.
Commissioner Lashley stated that both board would discuss the fire
department consolidation at the next scheduled meetings.
Commissioner Lashley asked if there were any further comments. There
being no comments, the meeting was urned at 8:55 P.M.
MAYOR OAKLAND R. C MAN
ATTEST:
Ze //1
BONNIE S. THOMAS, CMC
CITY CLERK
This meeting was taped and can be heard in it's entirety at the City
Clerk's office.